Chapter 13 Discharged ... But It's Still Not Over ...

[FeelingHopeless]

Well, a couple weeks ago, I met with our lawyer ... he taped our interview and took notes ... and took all the paperwork I had from them ... including the legal notice of repossession and the letter stating they had "incorrectly" respossessed the van and no longer had a lien on the property.

He said they're going to file something by Friday ... and not to get my hopes up ... but they're going to ask the court to have them pay for my new vehicle, since I had no intention of buying it and only took out a loan because I had to have a way to get to work.

In another post, lrprn said there's a part of the bankruptcy law that addresses violations of the automatic stay: "Subsection 362(h) - An individual injured by any willful violation of a stay provided by this section shall recover actual damages, including costs and attorneys' fees, and, in appropriate circumstances, may recover punitive damages."

Our lawyer is filing a case against the credit union for violation of the automatic bankruptcy stay and possibly for violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. We're supposed to get a copy of the court papers in the mail ... but I may call them today to find out where we're at. I hesitate to call ... cause you know, those billable hours really stack up.

Here's a link to the other post: http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=15619

I'll write back once I get the paperwork and know more. Thanks for EVERYONE's support ... I really needed it. The week the van was repo'ed was the worst week of my life.

[CityGirl]

Anymore news ???

[FeelingHopeless]

Hey, guys! I have a meeting with our lawyer at twelve o'clock noon today ... he called first thing Monday morning and said he wanted me to bring over any paperwork they gave me in regards to the respossession. Gosh, I'm nervous ... I'll write more later and post what he said about the situation.

[FeelingHopeless]

Hey, everyone ... just keeping you updated on the situation in case anyone finds themself in the same boat.

We picked up the van on Saturday morning. The keys, title, and a letter were in a sealed envelope in the drive-thru. This isn't word for word ... but the letter basically says, "Because we were missing paperwork, we incorrectly reposessed this van. We no longer hold any lien against this property."

Giving copies of everything to the lawyer tomorrow ... I'll let you guys know what he says. HUGS

[FeelingHopeless]

Hey there, guys! Thanks lrprn ... it was good to hear her say "we apologize." And honestly, it took everything not to fall apart on the phone. I want to rant and rave and yell and cry and ask if her she had any IDEA how traumatic that was for us ... but I stayed calm.

The only new "news" I have ... is that the lawyer himself called yesterday. I told him that the CU rep said they were releasing our mini-van. I also told him how she offered to write us the letter of explanation in case I was stopped by police for not having plates ... and just asked if it was alright if we went and picked it up.

He said yes ... definately go get it ... but make sure I get that letter from them as proof of what they did and then bring it to him. I said, "But I *have* proof ... they Fed Ex'ed me an official "Notice of Repossession" ... and he said GOOD ... bring that to me too.

So, Saturday morning, my husband and I are going to go to the CU, pick up the title, letter, and keys from the drive-thru and bring it home. I'm not sure what, if anything, will happen next. I'm not a shark ... it's not like I'm thinking, "You guys are SO sued ..." ... but I am curious to talk to our lawyer after he sees the letter and paperwork. I'd really like to know how often this happens ...

Thanks for being so supportive, guys ... I'll write more on Monday after I talk to our lawyer. HUGS!

[lrprn]

Yay!! Way to hang in there, FH! It must have been sweet to actually hear her say "illegally" Keep us posted on what happens, ok? Just really glad that it looks like all will turn out for the best for you and your family!

[FeelingHopeless]

Alright guys ... here we go! All I want to say is ... I *knew* I wasn't crazy!

Yesterday I got home and there was a Fed Ex envelope on the table. The credit union faxed us our official notice of reposession. There was also a message on the answering machine from their representative ... but I didn't get home in time to return the call.

So I called this morning ... and she stiffly apologized. She claims that their lawyers did not get all the paperwork from our trustee. Her position is that it's our trustee and the court's fault that they hadn't been given all the information on our case. Having said that, she said we were free to come pick up the van and the title at our earliest convenience.

I asked her, "And just how am I supposed to do that? When you repo'ed my car, I took a day off work, purchased a new car, and had the plates transferred to the new vehicle. I have no way of legally getting the van back home now."

She offered to write us a letter that states that they repossessed the van (I interrupted with INCORRECTLY repossessed the van and she gritted her teeth and agreed) and that we are transporting the vehicle back to our house. She wanted to know exactly when I planned to pick it up. I said, "You know, I appreciate the call ... but I'm going to have to call you back. I need to make a few calls and find out what to do about this." And she said " <pause> ... Thank you ... please give me a call back."

So, I called our lawyer's office ... and Tammy is home sick. They're going to find out who will be handling our case until she returns ... because there's no way I'm picking this thing up until our lawyer says it's okay. The credit union has no idea how many tears or how much heartache this caused.

I'm not a shark ... I don't want to sue their pants off or be vindictive ... but there's no way I'm going to drive this van across town illegally until AFTER I've talked with our lawyer.

More to come ... stay tuned ...

HUGS

[FeelingHopeless]

Hey guys, thanks for the replies! I read the link you posted, Jolly GG ... I think I need to keep that in my files for future use. Sounds like even after discharge we still might get a call from time to time.

It makes me wonder ... how many times does this happen and someone feels so beat down and humiliated that they just let it go. I was ready to just let them keep the van and wash my hands of the whole mess.

But, even if they DID somehow have a legal right to do this ... not sure how ... but even if they did, I'll at least feel better knowing I didn't give up without a fight.

[Minnymouth]

GO FOR IT............ repo after discharge is illegal, and especially after paying it off in Chapter 13....

Yes, discuss with your attorney the fees involved in this action.... and be sure the CU is going to get stuck with the bill of all of it, plus their fines....
also be sure you get the vehicle back with clear title....

Then you can use it, sell it, or just sit it in the back yard..... whatever you want to do with it.....

Fines can get pretty steep for companies that pull this type of stunt, and judges love to "dish them out"..... and they can loose their business liscence.

Hopefully you won't be out a dime, will cost the CU big bucks, and you will get you vehicle back....

Keep us posted.

[JollyGG]

Check out some posts by CPO. He loves creditors who violate his rights. Here is one of his most recent posts. http://bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=15442

[FeelingHopeless]

Hmmmm ... I hadn't considered that they might have to pay a fine. Well, as soon as I get the paperwork, I'll sit down with Tammy and have a talk about everything ... including costs for this thing. There's this big part of me that just wants to walk away and say "Enough!" But, damn, guys ... they repossessed it AFTER it was discharged. That just doesn't seem right.

[JollyGG]

Here's the thing though ... at some point we're going to have to decide if it's worth going after. The van is only worth two or three thousand ... if lawyer bills, courts costs, etc. are going to be more then the van is worth, we might as well just let them have it, right? Even if we get the van and title, if we're in the hole, what's the point of having the moral high ground?

You are forgetting the $1000 hit the credit union will take due to the stay violations. Likely your lawyer will include language in the suit that says that the credit union pays court costs if found in violation (which they will be). That is why your lawyers office is so excited. They will be charging their highest fees because they know the credit union will be the one paying it.

Of course verify this with the lawyer before you make plans.

[FeelingHopeless]

Sorry ... this is long ...

Hey guys! Thank you SO much for being so supportive ... honestly, yesterday felt like the worst day of my life.

Yesterday afternoon, I called the lawyer who took care of our Chapter 13 Bankruptcy and spoke with his associate, Tammy. I am not exaggerating when I say she freaked out. She kept asking, "Wait, you're telling me they REPO'ED the van that was DISCHARGED!?"

When I explained that they said they wouldn't release it unless I paid everything back that was charged off, she said, "Get it in writing ... NOW!" In fact, she said, "I bet the Federal Bankruptcy judge would LOVE to hear about this ..."

So I called the CU ... and nicely asked her to send me a detailed list of what I needed to pay in order to get the van back. The woman I'd been working with IMMEDIATELY got hostile. She said, "I know what's going on. Your LAWYER has told you we don't have the right to do this. And we DO! I do this ALL THE TIME." I said, "I don't want to argue. Please send me the paperwork." So then she changed tactics and said, "So, you're wanting us to give you a VAN that you didn't pay for? Doesn't that make you feel bad?" So again I said, "Please don't make this nasty. Just send me the paperwork."

I called back Tammy and she said, "I'm SO GLAD you called back! He walked in the door as I was hanging up from you and he wants your file NOW. But we need to know ONE thing ... did you SURRENDER the van?" I said, "What do you mean surrender?" and she said, "When they came to reposses it, did you HAND them the keys?" and I said, "No, they took it in the middle of the night. I woke up and it was gone." And she said, "GOOD ... THAT is where they made their mistake."

Sooooo, that's where we're at. As soon as the CU sends me the paperwork, I'm going to drive it over to the lawyer.

Here's the thing though ... at some point we're going to have to decide if it's worth going after. The van is only worth two or three thousand ... if lawyer bills, courts costs, etc. are going to be more then the van is worth, we might as well just let them have it, right? Even if we get the van and title, if we're in the hole, what's the point of having the moral high ground?

But ... as hard as they tried to make our lives hell, for the moment the world is alright. I have a car. I'm at work. Although I'm still speechless. I've never heard of this kind of situation before.

[arkienurse]

PS - The CEO asked me ... at this point you need to decide whether it's worth fighting. Would you rather say, "Take it ... I'm done with all this." or is it worth it to fight? I told him ... I'm close to saying "Take it, I'm done." He said ... isn't it worth a couple hundred to prove them wrong? Couldn't YOU use the two or three thousand that it's worth?

Well ... yes ... yes, I could.

Grrrr Attack!! Attack!!!

Have you been able to get ahold of your lawyer yet???

I think I would have to fight on principle.

[lrprn]

He said ... isn't it worth a couple hundred to prove them wrong? Couldn't YOU use the two or three thousand that it's worth? Well ... yes ... yes, I could.

I hope you decide to take these jerks on, FH! They have done something illegal and you and your lawyer can prove it. Take them for all the $$ you can get, and maybe...just maybe...they won't do this to someone else in your same position who can't afford to take them on!

Keep us posted on what happens, ok? We're in your corner 100%!