Political Discussion

[banca rotta]

IBroke "Obama killed Osama. Guess who the next President will be?"



This will probably be his only accomplishment and you can bet he will milk it for all he can right up to the 2012 election.

I am glad however he gave the order to do the right thing so our brave troops finally cut the head off of that poison snake.

Hopefully they can all head home soon!

[banca rotta]

Social Security is NOT the problem. It is solvent and has added ZERO to the debt. Medicare does need work. Neither FDR or LBJ created or added to this mess. We were on track to deal with this when W Bush gave away huge tax cuts and started 2 wars. Obama has added to this mess by extending the Bush tax cuts and extending the wars.

To answer your question as to have these numbers paid End the Bush tax cuts and the wars. Close tax loopholes i.e did you know that wall street hedge fund managers top tax rate is 15% -- this is criminal. We do have a revenue problem.

Medicare is still 78 trillion and Bush prescription drug liability is over 19 trillion.

The problem with social security is that the "surplus" was spent and technically went into treasury bonds which the treasury (You and I) has to pay this back now that S.S. went negative as of last year. Negative meaning S.S. is now paying out more then it's taking in (no more surplus).

That's basically why the fed has it's "QE" money printing programs. There's no longer enough suckers left on the planet to loan the govt money for these things.

I am not defending the hedge fund managers or the rest of the uber rich. Don't care either way. My point in this discussion is when you add up all of their wealth it will not be enough to cover the liabilities.

[goodyphilips]

Although I don't agree with everything Ron Paul believes, he is at least one of the few honest politicians with integrity. We would be a better country if we had a few more honest politicians with a little integrity.

completely agree with you. we need honest and strong leaders.

[IBroke]

Obama killed Osama. Guess who the next President will be?

[shark66]

A quote from the last link, emphasis is mine:

Far from being "worthless IOUs," the investments held by the trust funds are backed by the full faith and credit of the U. S. Government. The government has always repaid Social Security, with interest. The special-issue securities are, therefore, just as safe as U.S. Savings Bonds or other financial instruments of the Federal government.

If this, along with second one which is an op-ed by Sanders, is supposed to make anyone believe that Social Security is in good hands and even better shape, so be it...

Don't get me wrong - I never expected to see a red cent out of all the money the government has taken from me over the course of my working life in this country...that being said...

I honestly did hope you'd cite a credible source. These are pretty much like Wikipedia.

Good luck to us all.

[msm859]

And your source for this piece of information is ?

Good luck to us all.

http://www.epi.org/analysis_and_opinion/entry/fact_check_has_social_security_begun_tapping_its_trust_funds/

http://vtdigger.org/2010/08/16/sanders-a-way-to-make-social-security-solvent-for-the-next-75-years/

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/fundFAQ.html

[shark66]

Social Security is NOT the problem. It is solvent and has added ZERO to the debt.

And your source for this piece of information is ?

Good luck to us all.

[msm859]

I will put this link back since you missed it the first time->http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Feel free to open it, look on the bottom line and explain just how your suggestions will pay for the total unfunded liabilities of 113 + trillion dollars???

........

I can bet you that no one here or anywhere can answer the question on how these numbers will ever be paid for.......

One note on the D & R loyal fans FDR, LBJ, W Bush and Obama all created or added to this mess. Each of them created or expanded S.S. and Medicare in their own way.

Social Security is NOT the problem. It is solvent and has added ZERO to the debt. Medicare does need work. Neither FDR or LBJ created or added to this mess. We were on track to deal with this when W Bush gave away huge tax cuts and started 2 wars. Obama has added to this mess by extending the Bush tax cuts and extending the wars.

To answer your question as to have these numbers paid End the Bush tax cuts and the wars. Close tax loopholes i.e did you know that wall street hedge fund managers top tax rate is 15% -- this is criminal. We do have a revenue problem.

[banca rotta]

To get back on topic I agree that Ron Paul will hurt the middle class. So will everyone else that happens to win the next election just as under Obama the middle class is getting hurt.

With the staggering numbers I mentioned above there is no way anyone can bring about a pain free recovery.

The only question is do we begin the recovery now with a lot of pain or later with more excruciating pain.

I admit no one wants any pain but it will be required before we can celebrate a recovery.

It's not a new problem it's just more and more painful since it's been ignored for so long.

Any bankrupt person should realize this too.

[banca rotta]

Pretend? What an ignorant statement.

You are a typical doom and gloom person. ALL of your posts reek of it.

Yes, we have a debt problem. Yes, we need to do something about it.

But Ron Paul isn't the answer. He will only make it worse. And hurt the middle class and poor just as much as all of the other conservatives already have.

One of the solutions is to cut spending. Starting with the subsidies to the oil companies. The other solution is to raise taxes. And I'm not talking about a flat tax here. That would put more of the burden on the poor and middle class. I am talking about letting the Bush give away to the rich expire and closing tax loopholes that allow major corporations to pay no taxes.

And Ron Paul isn't the person to do that.

I will put this link back since you missed it the first time->http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Feel free to open it, look on the bottom line and explain just how your suggestions will pay for the total unfunded liabilities of 113 + trillion dollars???

Just to the right of it it comes to a million bucks per taxpayer.

As for doom and gloom well I am for the average person that is unaware of this problem and is in denial. As for those who prepare for this coming storm life will be good.

I can bet you that no one here or anywhere can answer the question on how these numbers will ever be paid for.

The US federal tax revenues are about 2 trillion from 14 trillion GDP and the entire worlds GDP is around 65 trillion. That's GDP not tax revenues.

Please anyone explain just how this is enough to pay for 113 trillion in liabilities plus all of the debts.

One note on the D & R loyal fans FDR, LBJ, W Bush and Obama all created or added to this mess. Each of them created or expanded S.S. and Medicare in their own way.

[banca rotta]

I am concerned for them. We need to let the Bush tax cuts expire- Today! We need to tax all income for social security, we need to negotiate for medicine in bulk. We do need to look at possibly raising the age for medicare. We need to get out of all of these wars. We need higher marginal tax rates over a million to curb greed. This would be a good start.

I agree with a lot of these suggestions. It's a good start, but more will be needed.

As for the Bush tax cuts that Obama and the Democratic controlled senate extended several months back, I felt back in 2001/2002 we should only have these cuts as long as we have spending cuts to off set them.

Instead we had 2 wars and now a 3rd war (libya) with no tax increases to pay for them.

10 years later we all discovered the hard way that there's no difference between Bush and Obama. They both borrow and spend unlike anyone before them on war and entitlements.

[IamOld]

I think you are right about the Fed - but remember, "entitlements" are what "we the people" pay into - and alas NO ONE except the VERY rich retired before Soc Security.

By the way, old age pensions, national health insurance, etc., are German invention - Bismarck in the 1880's!!!!!

[helpmeout]

It's already happening and it is hurting those very folks you pretend to care about!!!!

Pretend? What an ignorant statement.

You are a typical doom and gloom person. ALL of your posts reek of it.

Yes, we have a debt problem. Yes, we need to do something about it.

But Ron Paul isn't the answer. He will only make it worse. And hurt the middle class and poor just as much as all of the other conservatives already have.

One of the solutions is to cut spending. Starting with the subsidies to the oil companies. The other solution is to raise taxes. And I'm not talking about a flat tax here. That would put more of the burden on the poor and middle class. I am talking about letting the Bush give away to the rich expire and closing tax loopholes that allow major corporations to pay no taxes.

And Ron Paul isn't the person to do that.

[msm859]

Helpmeout, I don't pretend to have all of the answers to all of these problems.

I just feel that this problem -> http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Is much bigger then the problems you describe.

Continuing with the massive spendingAND MASSIVE TAX CUTS, borrowing and money printing is going to make a lot of suffering for us all.

BTW I have been talking like this for a while and sadly this govt spending problem is no longer a doom and gloom prediction of what might happen in the future.Well I hope you were talking about it when Bush passed his tax cuts. Before that we had a surplus and were paying down the debt. Bush passed his tax cuts and Cheney said deficits don't matter.

It's already happening and it is hurting those very folks you pretend to care about!!!!

The US's credit card is almost at the limit and we are printing up the remaining cash to cover the deficit. A trillion dollars a year and growing.

This is why the poor and middle class are paying at the pump and for food.Not true. The poor and middle class are paying at the pump because there is no regulation of Wall Street to speculate and drive up the price of oil. What about these people??? Where is your concern for them????

I am concerned for them. We need to let the Bush tax cuts expire- Today! We need to tax all income for social security, we need to negotiate for medicine in bulk. We do need to look at possibly raising the age for medicare. We need to get out of all of these wars. We need higher marginal tax rates over a million to curb greed. This would be a good start.

[banca rotta]

Helpmeout, I don't pretend to have all of the answers to all of these problems.

I just feel that this problem -> http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Is much bigger then the problems you describe.

Continuing with the massive spending, borrowing and money printing is going to make a lot of suffering for us all.

BTW I have been talking like this for a while and sadly this govt spending problem is no longer a doom and gloom prediction of what might happen in the future.

It's already happening and it is hurting those very folks you pretend to care about!!!!

The US's credit card is almost at the limit and we are printing up the remaining cash to cover the deficit. A trillion dollars a year and growing.

This is why the poor and middle class are paying at the pump and for food. What about these people??? Where is your concern for them????