Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as BKForum.com and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do:
BKFORUM.com (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto BKForum.com you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.


Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of BKforum.com.

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on BKForum.com are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

Do People Ever Really Own Their Home Anymore?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Do People Ever Really Own Their Home Anymore?

    Seems like they want to act like an HOA. So much for freedom inside and outside your home, garage etc. They want to control everything.

    http://www.floridatoday.com/article/...m-home-parking

  • #2
    Yes, you do own your home. There are even ordinances in any particular town, city, county that may impose conditions not too dissimilar to what an HOA's bylaws (covenants, conditions and restrictions).

    As for parking, this has always been an issue even in major cities. In some major cities, you can't perk overnight on streets. Some HOAs have similar rules. Most HOAs have rules against commercial vehicles overnight in plane sight. Now, there are reasons why most HOAs just adopt other HOA rules on commercial vehicle parking. It was originally to prevent crime. There were MAJOR criminal rings that would use -- and still do today -- commercial vehicles to burglarize a home. The HOA that I live in now, does not have such a restriction in my particular sub-division, but others do ban both overnight parking and all commercial vehicles over 3 hours.

    Unless you want to live in the boonies, Montana is really nice, you will be subject to some sort of restrictions in the form of HOA CC&Rs or town, city, and/or county ordinances.

    So yes, you own your home. If you want to park commercial vehicles at a home, then it must be zoned for commercial use or mixed use. I know that I don't want to live next door, at least in my neighborhood, to large UPS step vans on the street. Besides, they are really too large for our traditional "18 feet curb to curb with on-street parking" streets where I live.
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

    Comment


    • #3
      I disagree with the above posting. If a person who works for a living cannot park their work truck in front of their home--or even in an enclosed garage, as the ordinance in Brevard County, FL prohibits--then they hardly "own" their home! At least in the city where I live, the local government has not seen fit to punish hardworking tradesmen with silly restrictions that they cannot even park their work truck--which is needed for their livelihood--in front of their house. There are some HOA's here which have these restrictions, but there are also some which will grant permission for people to park smaller commercial vehicles on their property, if necessary for their job.

      What is interesting to me is that people who rent their home almost never seem to face these silly restrictions. Even the fanciest apartment complexes here, in the priciest neighborhoods have no problem with tenants parking their work truck on the property. If they did, then I'm sure they would quickly find themselves out of business for lack of suitable tenants. HOA's are able to impose silly restrictions because they know once you've bought the house, you are locked in. A tenant can always move as soon as the lease is over, and property management companies generally understand that fact and thus try to keep their tenants happy.

      Comment


      • #4
        It would not bother me one bit if my neighbor had one of these trucks unless he was parking on my property. I grew up in Brevard County on 1 3/4 of an acre and I don't see the reason for this, even on a smaller lot. What about all the hard working entrepreneurs who own these vehicles? Where are they supposed to park? People aren't automatically burglars because they drive a big truck. In an HOA maybe because the houses are so cramped together. Here we have an issue with parking even with regular cars. Our neighbor on one side has 5-6 vehicles and sometimes parks in the street in front of our house and we don't mind because we park in our driveway and garage most of the time. Our other neighbor(renters) spits on your car if you park in street in front of "his" house. One time my disabled daughter had her car parked there and he spit on it and left a note telling her to park in her own yard. Then another time, my daughter's 17 year old friend parked there and that neighbor spit on his car and threatened to kick his @*%!

        Comment


        • #5
          Home ownership is an illusion in an HOA. One surrenders their rights when submitting to an HOA and in many cases means doing the bidding of a few. If the board is strictly volunteer then what happens is people who want to control others seem to rise to the top. These people just love criticizing others and forcing others to do their will otherwise known as the covenants. I like to call these folks office Nazis.
          Over the years we find a new business has emerged that provides a management service for HOAs. These management groups are usually people who could not find legitimate work elsewhere and were able to convince a few unsuspecting people the HOA would run better. Unlike the volunteers we now have paid managers who are intertwined with attorneys all trying to prove their worth at the expense of a homeowner who unknowingly parks one of his vehicles too close to the curb. When one of the homeowners complains, well, NO SOUP FOR YOU!
          I think one of the most significant factors in HOAs is that fact that many of our legislators are heavily invested in them. The top lobbyist group is the financial sector followed by the real estate sector. These lobbyists have conspired with politicians to provide a power to the HOA equal to the any taxing agency and stripping the homeowner of any means of airing a complaint.
          In the news, HOA residents fined for planting trees that were too small, parking too close to the curb, vehicles other than cars, grass and inch to tall, removing dead trees, flying an American flag, planting the wrong color flower, and the list goes on and on and on.

          In an HOA the resident does not own the property. It is the reverse, the property owns them.

          Comment


          • #6
            bcohen, florida is indeed another animal all together with respect to the all powerful HOA lobbyists. their restrictions and covenants are some of the toughest in this country. this past july there were numerous changes by the legislators, (so many i haven't even completed reading them all and i have 6 of the for clients.) the 6 i deal with not a ONE allows any commercial trucks in front of them homes other than pick-ups. in one of the HOAs we have a "trucker" and what's the guy to do. we have a cul-de-sac in that HOA which has no homes on it, i suggested there MUST be an exception in the rule, as this is this families lively hood. another HOA is working on a out door storage area for those with campers and large equipment i suggested each wanting to use it pay the HOA $10 per item stored on the property per year, it's all fenced in with nothing on the property. so some are working with the people and other HOAs here in florida are simply the worse humans there could be running a ton of HOAs. i have a friend that does similar work for HOAs as i do, she's being sued now along with many of the officers. (i make them sign a agreement protecting me against that type or responsibility)
            8/4/2008 MAKE SURE AND VISIT Tobee's Blogs! http://www.bkforum.com/blog.php?32727-tobee43 and all are welcome to bk forum's Florida State Questions and Answers on BK http://www.bkforum.com/group.php?groupid=9

            Comment


            • #7
              It may come back to bite me one day, but everyone is looking at this HOA thing from the wrong viewpoint. The HOA was created to manage properties built by investors and developers. The HOA was always meant to be a quasi-governmental "agency" that provided covenants and restrictions to both builders and owners/residents of a "master planned community" (or planned unit development -- PUD).

              When you take that viewpoint, you now understand that you moved into a municipality (town) that has its own laws (rules and restrictions). HOAs are not for anyone who does not like "restrictions" because the core of an HOA are restrictions. Those restrictions, in most cases, were to encourage the built out of that HOA by attracting investors and developers to build within the HOA. For buyers, the HOA provided consistency in architecture and a set of consonants and restrictions to govern those that lived within the HOA's boundary.

              Other than that, there is no reason to blame an HOA. Just as any small town's government, they make mistakes, waste money, act "holier than thou", and can be difficult to deal with (administrivial, red-tape). You still have ownership of the property subject to the rules and restrictions just as you would in say, Brrevard County.

              Now, to Brevard County... they are a State-chartered municipality pretending to be an HOA.
              Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
              Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
              Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


              I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by bcohen View Post
                I disagree with the above posting. If a person who works for a living cannot park their work truck in front of their home--or even in an enclosed garage, as the ordinance in Brevard County, FL prohibits--then they hardly "own" their home! At least in the city where I live, the local government has not seen fit to punish hardworking tradesmen with silly restrictions that they cannot even park their work truck--which is needed for their livelihood--in front of their house. There are some HOA's here which have these restrictions, but there are also some which will grant permission for people to park smaller commercial vehicles on their property, if necessary for their job.

                What is interesting to me is that people who rent their home almost never seem to face these silly restrictions. Even the fanciest apartment complexes here, in the priciest neighborhoods have no problem with tenants parking their work truck on the property. If they did, then I'm sure they would quickly find themselves out of business for lack of suitable tenants. HOA's are able to impose silly restrictions because they know once you've bought the house, you are locked in. A tenant can always move as soon as the lease is over, and property management companies generally understand that fact and thus try to keep their tenants happy.
                That is one of the beauties of renting vs. owning a home. I have never owned a home, and I never intend to own one.

                And if something goes wrong with the house, I complain to the landlord and it's his responsibility to fix it. And whenever I feel like it, once a lease has expired, I'm always free to move on to somewhere better at the drop of a hat.

                Right now I found a rental home with northern exposure. My back porch faces north, and it is screened in. I put a full bed out there so I can sleep outside at night while the weather is still nice in the evenings. I put a table and chairs out there and I eat all my meals out there and even watch t.v. and listen to the radio out there. It's so nice! I just love it.
                The world's simplest C & D Letter:
                "I demand that you cease and desist from any communication with me."
                Notice that I never actually mention or acknowledge the debt in my letter.

                Comment


                • #9
                  When one is shopping for a home the ordinances should be considered just as any other attraction for the home. HOA or not. I agree that it can seem a bit controlling, but even my less than desirable neighborhood has requirements set by the city. Things like storing trash cans behind a gate, not parking in the yard, maintaining the yard, and other items that help keep the area at least looking somewhat maintained.
                  11/23/'10-filed ch 13. 1/6/'11-341, confirmed. Below median. Plan completed 11/30/2015. DISSCHARGED 4/4/2016.JP

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by spidge View Post
                    When one is shopping for a home the ordinances should be considered just as any other attraction for the home. HOA or not.
                    Exactly. You buy a home subject to ordinances or HOA regulations that may restrict what you can do on your property. That doesn't mean you don't own your home. It just means you are expected to live according to the standards established by the community where you chose to buy a house. If you think the rules are unreasonable, get involved in the community and try to change them.
                    Last edited by LadyInTheRed; 05-26-2014, 02:18 PM.
                    LadyInTheRed is in the black!
                    Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
                    $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Well, if you buy a house in a fairly poor neighborhood-here in Tucson, it's a Barrio. We have lots of security and don't go out nights much at our age, so we actually feel more secure than when we lived in much more expensive neighborhoods. Nobody cares and nobody really knows what you're doing on your property as long as you're not dealing drugs out of it. Our house was "homemade", not a plumb wall or floor in the place. There are so many pre-existing not up to code buildings here, there can be no enforcement except for egregious violations that irritate the neighbors enough to report it.

                      Since the house was so cheap ($75K), we were able to buy it with cash from retirement accounts which were earning less than nothing (being charged to lose money-really chafed me) and now own it free and clear. So we only pay property taxes ($100/month) and homeowners insurance (less than $100/month, plus utilities. Those are fairly low-house is only 1250 square feet for power and desert landscape watered pretty much with all grey water, so not much water. After the power bill, our highest expense is the Internet.

                      The house is cute and well maintained by hubby and mostly all of the other houses in our little corner of this Barrio are the same. Backyards are different, but no matter as they can't be seen except by Google Earth or Zillow, because we all have 6 foot (or more) fences or walls for security and the ubiquitous dogs, which add to the security. Also, everyone has locked gates, so noone can even get to the front door, which is wonderful.

                      Being from Florida and now for the last 20 years, Arizona, Hubby and I think only idiots or the naive buy a home with an HOA.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sbatman View Post
                        Being from Florida and now for the last 20 years, Arizona, Hubby and I think only idiots or the naive buy a home with an HOA.
                        You forgot one category of HOA homeowner. The well informed investor that has purchased in an HOA for investment reasons and wants to protect their investment through enforceable deed restrictions. You may have forgotten another type of HOA homeowner. Those are the parents of school-aged children which don't mind the extra cost of living in an HOA so they don't need to live behind 6ft fences and walls dividing properties.

                        I understand your concerns, but there are a lot of people who would rather pay and be subjected to deed restrictions, than those who would rather be more free to do whatever they want with their property. Just as their are survivalists that would rather live in the woods in a shack, while stockpiling supplies, there are those that would like the comforts of conformity.

                        Reminds me of my class valedictorian speech on conformist non-conformists. I digress.

                        We are half ruined by conformity; but we should be wholly ruined without it. - Charles Dudley Warner
                        Last edited by justbroke; 05-26-2014, 05:00 PM.
                        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                        I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sbatman View Post
                          ...Hubby and I think only idiots or the naive buy a home with an HOA.
                          FINALLY, someone who gets it!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            But even investors are having a hard time in HOA's as the HOA's are allowing less and less rentals in the neighborhoods. If the investor plans on selling right away it doesn't matter but those that want to rent out houses are in trouble.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I get it too. It's bad enough we have to pay the city/county taxes and never really owning your property. I don't need an HOA. They need me. There is nothing an HOA can do that the city or county can't (except pool areas, condo's and such). I don't think I will ever consider buying in an HOA again. There is one HOA I would consider here in Florida where the houses and yards aren't cookie cutter and were by design to fit into as natural setting as possible. Most people do maintain their yards for the most part.

                              Comment

                              Unconfigured Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X