Do People Ever Really Own Their Home Anymore?

[justbroke]

The real problem, is a people problem. You certainly hit the nail on the head when you write that a good HOA requires "good" people!

An HOAs "goodness" may, in fact, be directly proportional to the relative socioeconomic status of said HOA.

[TXskyblue]

You are right that it comes down to management. I know people who live in HOAs who say "yes, HOAs can be despotic but we have really good people on our board." That works as long as you have good people on the board, but I think many with first-hand knowledge of HOAs will attest that HOAs are attractive to harsh, arbitrary, power-hungry people. Your HOA has tremendous power (that you granted it) and when, not if, the wrong people are elected to the board, you will suffer.

It is inevitable.

[justbroke]

The HOA boards don't care so much about empty properties as much as maintenance fees and upkeep. There are many HOAs down here in Florida that are comprised almost entirely of snowbirds that are absent 8 months of the year! I visited one and it was like a ghost town, but so well maintained. The HOA maintained the landscaping of the single family homes and did keep the place looking pristine. (And, it wasn't an overpriced community either, although gated and with a very good gym, pool, and community center.)

It does come down to management, and just like some very corrupt towns across the U.S. -- remember Hampton, Florida! -- we do need to understand where we are living.

[Lilyat108x]

My old HOA just recently made rental restrictions. Too many houses sitting empty for that. There are ways around the restrictions. The investor can owner finance the property, put the property in a trust or put the property in an LLC.

[justbroke]

But even investors are having a hard time in HOA's as the HOA's are allowing less and less rentals in the neighborhoods. If the investor plans on selling right away it doesn't matter but those that want to rent out houses are in trouble.

An "investor" that has not read the CC&Rs, just as any individual who buys in an HOA, deserves exactly what they get. This is a contractual issue. Nothing more. When everyone gets "that" it a contractual issue... maybe they'll read. If you don't like the terms of the contract, then you don't sign the contract.

Real investors don't plan to sell right away... that defines a flipper. True investors understand the area, the rental market, the CC&Rs, and the value. Right now, HOAs are desperate not to have empty homes not paying assessments. In fact, COAs/HOAs in Florida that have foreclosed for assessments and obtain rights to the property, end up renting the property in order to cover the assessments. The typical owner to renter ratio is 6:4 in most COA/HOAs or about 40% renters. The problem is not that HOAs are restricting the number of rentals; they have always restricted the number.

(There are some "interesting" investors that are more predatory. They buy these COA/HOA foreclosures, rent the property, and just wait for the bank to foreclose. In the interim, they hope to make back the money spent to buy the HOA lien at the foreclosure, and make a little extra. I'm not sure these are real investors and COA/HOAs may be duplicitous in these schemes.)

Pretty simple stuff. You either like it or you don't. I am fortunate to live in a moderately well-run HOA (and COA since we have condos as well). It is managed by an outside management company. It does not look like ANY typical Florida master planned community. The streets are 18' curb-to-curb with parking on both sides. Detached garages on most single-family homes. Cozy neighborhoods. Trees galore (it was a wooded area). neo-traditional design with homes that have a more colonial appearance.

Other than just having to re-paint my mailbox... they have only once ever sent me a violation in 9 years. The last one (in 2006) was for dead grass in the easement. I'm sure that others have or have had significant issues, but I have absolutely no problems with and in my HOA. We have a mix of housing, renters, shopping, restaurants, dog parks, people parks, and the obligatory HOA/COA pools, tennis courts, soccer fields, and recreational facilities.

I digress. The original topic was about a municipality acting as an HOA and not about HOAs specifically. For the topic at hand... I own my home. While I can't paint it neon green or leave a car on cinder blocks in my front yard, I'm happy.

[Lilyat108x]

I get it too. It's bad enough we have to pay the city/county taxes and never really owning your property. I don't need an HOA. They need me. There is nothing an HOA can do that the city or county can't (except pool areas, condo's and such). I don't think I will ever consider buying in an HOA again. There is one HOA I would consider here in Florida where the houses and yards aren't cookie cutter and were by design to fit into as natural setting as possible. Most people do maintain their yards for the most part.

[Lilyat108x]

But even investors are having a hard time in HOA's as the HOA's are allowing less and less rentals in the neighborhoods. If the investor plans on selling right away it doesn't matter but those that want to rent out houses are in trouble.

[bcohen]

...Hubby and I think only idiots or the naive buy a home with an HOA.

FINALLY, someone who gets it!

[justbroke]

Being from Florida and now for the last 20 years, Arizona, Hubby and I think only idiots or the naive buy a home with an HOA.

You forgot one category of HOA homeowner. The well informed investor that has purchased in an HOA for investment reasons and wants to protect their investment through enforceable deed restrictions. You may have forgotten another type of HOA homeowner. Those are the parents of school-aged children which don't mind the extra cost of living in an HOA so they don't need to live behind 6ft fences and walls dividing properties.

I understand your concerns, but there are a lot of people who would rather pay and be subjected to deed restrictions, than those who would rather be more free to do whatever they want with their property. Just as their are survivalists that would rather live in the woods in a shack, while stockpiling supplies, there are those that would like the comforts of conformity.

Reminds me of my class valedictorian speech on conformist non-conformists. I digress.

We are half ruined by conformity; but we should be wholly ruined without it. - Charles Dudley Warner

[sbatman]

Well, if you buy a house in a fairly poor neighborhood-here in Tucson, it's a Barrio. We have lots of security and don't go out nights much at our age, so we actually feel more secure than when we lived in much more expensive neighborhoods. Nobody cares and nobody really knows what you're doing on your property as long as you're not dealing drugs out of it. Our house was "homemade", not a plumb wall or floor in the place. There are so many pre-existing not up to code buildings here, there can be no enforcement except for egregious violations that irritate the neighbors enough to report it.

Since the house was so cheap ($75K), we were able to buy it with cash from retirement accounts which were earning less than nothing (being charged to lose money-really chafed me) and now own it free and clear. So we only pay property taxes ($100/month) and homeowners insurance (less than $100/month, plus utilities. Those are fairly low-house is only 1250 square feet for power and desert landscape watered pretty much with all grey water, so not much water. After the power bill, our highest expense is the Internet.

The house is cute and well maintained by hubby and mostly all of the other houses in our little corner of this Barrio are the same. Backyards are different, but no matter as they can't be seen except by Google Earth or Zillow, because we all have 6 foot (or more) fences or walls for security and the ubiquitous dogs, which add to the security. Also, everyone has locked gates, so noone can even get to the front door, which is wonderful.

Being from Florida and now for the last 20 years, Arizona, Hubby and I think only idiots or the naive buy a home with an HOA.

[LadyInTheRed]

When one is shopping for a home the ordinances should be considered just as any other attraction for the home. HOA or not.

Exactly. You buy a home subject to ordinances or HOA regulations that may restrict what you can do on your property. That doesn't mean you don't own your home. It just means you are expected to live according to the standards established by the community where you chose to buy a house. If you think the rules are unreasonable, get involved in the community and try to change them.

[spidge]

When one is shopping for a home the ordinances should be considered just as any other attraction for the home. HOA or not. I agree that it can seem a bit controlling, but even my less than desirable neighborhood has requirements set by the city. Things like storing trash cans behind a gate, not parking in the yard, maintaining the yard, and other items that help keep the area at least looking somewhat maintained.

[GoingDown]

I disagree with the above posting. If a person who works for a living cannot park their work truck in front of their home--or even in an enclosed garage, as the ordinance in Brevard County, FL prohibits--then they hardly "own" their home! At least in the city where I live, the local government has not seen fit to punish hardworking tradesmen with silly restrictions that they cannot even park their work truck--which is needed for their livelihood--in front of their house. There are some HOA's here which have these restrictions, but there are also some which will grant permission for people to park smaller commercial vehicles on their property, if necessary for their job.

What is interesting to me is that people who rent their home almost never seem to face these silly restrictions. Even the fanciest apartment complexes here, in the priciest neighborhoods have no problem with tenants parking their work truck on the property. If they did, then I'm sure they would quickly find themselves out of business for lack of suitable tenants. HOA's are able to impose silly restrictions because they know once you've bought the house, you are locked in. A tenant can always move as soon as the lease is over, and property management companies generally understand that fact and thus try to keep their tenants happy.

That is one of the beauties of renting vs. owning a home. I have never owned a home, and I never intend to own one.

And if something goes wrong with the house, I complain to the landlord and it's his responsibility to fix it. And whenever I feel like it, once a lease has expired, I'm always free to move on to somewhere better at the drop of a hat.

Right now I found a rental home with northern exposure. My back porch faces north, and it is screened in. I put a full bed out there so I can sleep outside at night while the weather is still nice in the evenings. I put a table and chairs out there and I eat all my meals out there and even watch t.v. and listen to the radio out there. It's so nice! I just love it.

[justbroke]

It may come back to bite me one day, but everyone is looking at this HOA thing from the wrong viewpoint. The HOA was created to manage properties built by investors and developers. The HOA was always meant to be a quasi-governmental "agency" that provided covenants and restrictions to both builders and owners/residents of a "master planned community" (or planned unit development -- PUD).

When you take that viewpoint, you now understand that you moved into a municipality (town) that has its own laws (rules and restrictions). HOAs are not for anyone who does not like "restrictions" because the core of an HOA are restrictions. Those restrictions, in most cases, were to encourage the built out of that HOA by attracting investors and developers to build within the HOA. For buyers, the HOA provided consistency in architecture and a set of consonants and restrictions to govern those that lived within the HOA's boundary.

Other than that, there is no reason to blame an HOA. Just as any small town's government, they make mistakes, waste money, act "holier than thou", and can be difficult to deal with (administrivial, red-tape). You still have ownership of the property subject to the rules and restrictions just as you would in say, Brrevard County.

Now, to Brevard County... they are a State-chartered municipality pretending to be an HOA.

[tobee43]

bcohen, florida is indeed another animal all together with respect to the all powerful HOA lobbyists. their restrictions and covenants are some of the toughest in this country. this past july there were numerous changes by the legislators, (so many i haven't even completed reading them all and i have 6 of the for clients.) the 6 i deal with not a ONE allows any commercial trucks in front of them homes other than pick-ups. in one of the HOAs we have a "trucker" and what's the guy to do. we have a cul-de-sac in that HOA which has no homes on it, i suggested there MUST be an exception in the rule, as this is this families lively hood. another HOA is working on a out door storage area for those with campers and large equipment i suggested each wanting to use it pay the HOA $10 per item stored on the property per year, it's all fenced in with nothing on the property. so some are working with the people and other HOAs here in florida are simply the worse humans there could be running a ton of HOAs. i have a friend that does similar work for HOAs as i do, she's being sued now along with many of the officers. (i make them sign a agreement protecting me against that type or responsibility)