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Considering moving to Oz, should I BK before I go?

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    Question Considering moving to Oz, should I BK before I go?

    Greetings friends and thank you for welcoming me into your forum.

    Since bankruptcy is such a personal thing I figure it'd be good to get a bit personal when describing my situation.

    Six years ago I got lucky and found my wife. Unfortunately she was on the other side of the planet in Australia. Back then I had a house in California so we figured it be best for her to move Stateside rather than I go that way. Since then things have gone rather sideways in many ways. First we moved out of the house due to home invasion (with my wife and 1 month old in the house at the time!) and let it go into foreclosure and surrendered it. Not the smartest thing but we've gotten past it.

    We've since left California (good riddance!) and moved to New Mexico (meh). We now have two kids, and thanks to that foreclosure and stupid credit reporting we have been denied buying a house a third time.

    Now I will fully admit I've done some dumb things over the years to get us into this situation, but at the same time between my work situation and my wife's continued homesickness we have started reconsidering that decision of her coming here.

    So here's my question, I have no intention of ever returning to live in America. I'm very much a "if I go, I'm gone" type person. Moving to Oz would be a fresh start in a lot of ways but I'm curious how much of my debts here would follow me there, or prevent me from going there.

    Currently I rent an apartment, have two car payments (both upside down), and have about $2500 worth of credit card debt and $7500 in student loans. I have two 401k's and I'm only 35. The cars total about $60K but since I'd be leaving the country I'd be surrendering the cars anyways. I'm still gainfully employed and am able to keep up on everything no worries.

    I've seen mentioned here a few times if you decided to file for BK you should stop paying all the debts on things you're going to get rid of anyway (including cars) immediately. That way you can use the money for the BK fees and, in my case, the moving costs of leaving the country. My question is, do I even need to bother with BK if I don't plan on coming back? Also if I did stop paying things how fast would they come for the cars because I kind of need one for work for a while (maybe just surrender one and keep the other for work until ready to go entirely?). As you can see I've got lots of questions swirling around and no one really to come to. So I come to you guys!

    Oh, another not insubstantial thing to come up is the costs of flying 4 to Oz, shipping a few things (computers), My immigration paperwork ($3000), and Passports/Citzenship paperwork for the kids and myself (About $900. Fun fact, kids born of Aussie mother [She never gave up her citizenship] but born outside of the country can still be Aussies. Makes this plan SOOOoo much simpler from that paperwork nightmare POV)

    #2
    It is unlikely that a US creditor will seek collection in Australia. However, the statute of limitations will not run while you are outside the boarders of this Country. If you never return, no big deal. But no one has a crystal ball and your situation is proof that plans change. Bet you never figured on moving to Australia. Based upon that, how can you rule out moving back to the US?

    Personally, assuming I qualified for a simple Chapter 7 (all assets protected by exemptions, including cash that might be just lying around like the $$ being saved for a move) I’d seek the closure bk can give. Dealing with the problem now means you won’t have to think about it should you return to the US.

    I would recommend that you at least consult with two or three bk attny to see if a simple Chapter 7 fits the bill.

    Des.

    Comment


      #3
      des, isn't it ten years? once you leave?
      8/4/2008 MAKE SURE AND VISIT Tobee's Blogs! http://www.bkforum.com/blog.php?32727-tobee43 and all are welcome to bk forum's Florida State Questions and Answers on BK http://www.bkforum.com/group.php?groupid=9

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by tobee43 View Post
        des, isn't it ten years? once you leave?
        Not that I am aware of. My understanding is that if you are out of the jurisdiction of service then the sol is tolled and resumes from where it left off when and if you return. (This was "law school" stuff - so maybe the rules have changed as it has been quite a few years since attending)

        Des.

        Comment


          #5
          As far as I know ...the bell says tolled while you are gone.

          Comment


            #6
            So if I just stayed overseas for 10+ years it'd all be gone anyway?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by mrjyee View Post
              So if I just stayed overseas for 10+ years it'd all be gone anyway?
              No. Tolling means that the statute of limitations stops running. After a quick Google search, it appeares that the SOL is 4 years in New Mexico. If you leave the country 2 years after default, the clock stops. If you return to the country, whether you are gone one year or 50 years, the creditor can still pursue you for 2 years after you return.
              LadyInTheRed is in the black!
              Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
              $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by LadyInTheRed View Post
                No. Tolling means that the statute of limitations stops running. After a quick Google search, it appeares that the SOL is 4 years in New Mexico. If you leave the country 2 years after default, the clock stops. If you return to the country, whether you are gone one year or 50 years, the creditor can still pursue you for 2 years after you return.
                Ah that makes sense. So on top of all my immigration costs I should plan for BK filing/lawyer costs eh?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Since you live in a rented home, have no secured property which you wish to keep, and don't seem to own much of anything, it sounds like you could file Chapter 7 on your own, without even needing to hire an attorney. Why not buy the NOLO book "How to File for Chapter 7 Bankruptcy", download and fill out the petition and schedules, and use this forum for advice? Also, most bankruptcy courts offer volunteer attorneys who will answer your questions and go over your documents for free; you just need to make an appointment in advance.

                  I took advantage of these resources, and was able to file a "no asset" Chapter 7 myself for less than $350 including the court fees and required pre-filing and pre-discharge classes. The book cost about $40, so my total outlay was less than $400 to discharge over $40k worth of debt. Not a bad deal. Why risk the uncertainty that you might need to come back here at some point, or that some creditor or junk debt buyer might attempt to harass you in Australia, when the solution can be had for less than $400?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Ah, wasn't sure if I could pull off a self-filing. Thanks for the tip bcohen!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Okay another question, what's the timing looking like?

                      I've got the timing of my passport, and my visa.
                      Then there's the delay in getting the kids acknowledged, then getting their passports.

                      So I'm looking at 6-8 months on just that stuff. So I need to know when I should stop paying my current bills, when I need to file the BK so that it can be resolved before I leave. Also when to leave my job as I'd need to move into my parent's place (in another state) before they took/surrendered my car. I would like to minimize time without cars at my folk's place.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Six to eight months... I would stop paying now and begin preparing for a chapter 7, which takes about 90 days to complete with no issues. Many BK attorneys offer free consultations you may want to take advantage of also. Lenders do not typically file lawsuits that quick. Your mileage may vary for sure.

                        ETA: I would also continue paying for the car but not re-affirm it.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          federal law (US Code Title 15, §1681c) controls the behavior of credit reporting ... tax liens: 10 years if unpaid, or 7 years from the payment date; Bankruptcy: 10 years. it goes on and on. so whether you stay here an dodge em or leave the county for 10 years they are gone. with the exception maybe of judgements that you must vacate.
                          8/4/2008 MAKE SURE AND VISIT Tobee's Blogs! http://www.bkforum.com/blog.php?32727-tobee43 and all are welcome to bk forum's Florida State Questions and Answers on BK http://www.bkforum.com/group.php?groupid=9

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by df04527 View Post
                            Six to eight months... I would stop paying now and begin preparing for a chapter 7, which takes about 90 days to complete with no issues. Many BK attorneys offer free consultations you may want to take advantage of also. Lenders do not typically file lawsuits that quick. Your mileage may vary for sure.

                            ETA: I would also continue paying for the car but not re-affirm it.
                            Yeah Looking for a BK attorney too to get their POV. But I don't have time off work for a week so It'll be a bit. :|

                            What do you mean not "re-affirm" my car?

                            Comment

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